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Author Topic: Fixing the Server Economy without a reset
Will
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Posts: 7
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Post Fixing the Server Economy without a reset
on: February 21, 2014, 14:12
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<p>I was chatting with Jack a while back about how broken an economy gets when it grows rapidly, without reset, and without natural inflation. If we plan to continue without a reset, and have even a hope of feasible trade, we need to take radical action very soon. Trading base units of diamond blocks isn’t that far off of where we are now. So here is my solution as a econ minor, it is kind of like Wolf of Wallstreet, but with less coke, and women, and pretty much everything else. We need to cause massive inflation until we reach normal growth models. 3-5% is normal per year, we should aim for this growth about every six months. Inflation sucks, but is hell better then players standing at spawn giving maxed diamond gear to new players as they join as they can’t store all their diamonds. Trust me, I have seen it happen.</p><br />
<p>Inflation Defined<br /><br />
Inflation is simply a rise in the average price of goods and services in the macroeconomy – Forbes</p><br />
<p>Inflation and Deflation are healthy processes that markets go though, except in rare instances, naturally. This does not happen by magic. It takes someone, somewhere making a conscious choice to charge more for the good or service they sell. l. The initial increase does not have to be in something that is being directly measured by the consumer price index. No person in my town, for example, buys barrels of fish oil; and yet when they become more expensive that sends a ripple throughout all related products. In the end, consumer prices jump as well, and my fish oil gets expensive as shit.</p><br />
<p> What causes inflation? </p><br />
<p>What we should be trying to do is reach a balance where our item prices increase 3-5% about every six months. There is one easy way to do this!</p><br />
<p>Demand Pull is the rise in demand relative to the supply. This one is the easiest to pull off on the microscale we are working at. If half of players halted using diamond for anything other then personal use (tools, armor, beacons) and shifted to trading iron only for two months, only two months, then began releasing their collected diamonds into the market, then returned to normal we would see a large increase in the cost of diamond relative to other goods for just holding their diamonds back for a little bit. It is easy and many of us could and should start reserving at least some of our diamonds from the general population. If a decent portion (>20) of players starting doing this in four month cycles we could observed healthy growth and those players would benefit from the raised prices.</p><br />
<p>Why should you do this?<br /><br />
As the game is made, Diamond should be the most expensive and rare resource. If we continue without a reset Diamond is only going to get more and more common while newly added materials will be much rarer and as such approach quicker and quicker to the price of diamond as time goes on. By halting some of the supply of diamond entering and exiting the market we give other materials a chance to catch up while diamond raises in value slowly.

Azerik
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Posts: 45
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Azerik
Post Re: Fixing the Server Economy without a reset
on: February 21, 2014, 14:33
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We don’t need, nor do we really have, an economy.

We are a near Utopian collective. Even collective is probably too strong of a word. We are nearly all not only self sufficient, but “well off.”

Monetary mediums of exchange presuppose that some resources are more scarce than others. While this is true in Minecraft in an absolute sense, it is also not entirely accurate. In theory diamonds (for example) are rare. In practice they are quite common if you employ the techniques to obtain them. My wife enjoys mining. She does it rather extensively. Her branch mine (strip mining is actually digging a gigantic hole in the ground and taking everything) is extremely extensive. She runs her tunnels out 3,000 blocks before starting a new one. The result of that is all my diamond needs are met internally. I’m not so stupidly “rich” as to be building giant castles of diamond block, but I don’t worry about whether I should fix a tool because of a lack of diamonds.

Minecraft really doesn’t have an economy since it is expressly designed for the players to gather all the resources. The only real commodity on the server is time. I don’t like spending my time in the nether. That means that I don’t have much quartz at all. To that end, I don’t use it as a building material. I save it for comparators (since machines are more important to me). Diamonds are rare because people would rather build a castle than spend hours mining.

There are no resources that any of us can’t get if we put the effort into it. The only economy we can practically have is barter. I have a lot of slime balls because I put in a large slime farm. You like exploring the nether and wind up with more quartz than you know what to do with, but don’t live in a slime chunk like I do.

The problem is that the only people on the server that really need things are the ones just starting out and they don’t have anything to pay for stuff with. On the other hand, I have so much slime and chicken that storage is becoming a problem, but I don’t really have anything that I want. All my needs are met well enough for now.

Sporknoggi-
n
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Posts: 79
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Sporknoggin
Post Re: Fixing the Server Economy without a reset
on: February 21, 2014, 14:53
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I was about to comment on this, but in the time that it took me to log in in, Az had already said most of what I was going to say. I think you are over thinking this a little Will. As I have said a few times on the server before, and Az has said in this thread, trading at Ocean Market, to me at least, is a barter system, people offer what they have in exchange for what they need/want. There is no economy per-say, nor is there a creation of a financial system with the need for a defined currency.

I don’t think you need to worry about diamonds being devalued on a scale with how long people have been on the server, for most people diamonds are a consumable resource, not a commodity that people have been sitting on whilst waiting for the day to come when they can realise their assets with the floatation of diamonds inc.

Ocean Market adds another fun little dynamic to the map, it is not the foundation of Minecraft society as we know it. Think of it as a big pair of scales, for example, I have a surplus of iron but I am too lazy to make cake, Kelzor doesn’t have much iron but she is great at making cake. A quick visit to the market and suddenly we both have what we need, without a hint of a sub-prime bubble being created through the leasing of Ocean Market properties. Happy days πŸ™‚

Also, “Like Wolf of Wall Street with less coke and women” !??! Way to sell that one πŸ˜›

In all seriousness though, Ocean is great (thanks Jack), no need to over think it. πŸ˜‰

jfkimberly
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Posts: 54
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jfkimberly
Post Re: Fixing the Server Economy without a reset
on: February 21, 2014, 14:58
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After reading this thread this far, I am really confused by a basic assumption in your post, Will… Why does a lack of reset mean that diamonds are going to eventually overwhelm the server in their abundance? There are only so many put into the game at terrain generation, so a map that never resets means a finite supply of a rather rare resource. And, as Spork pointed out, they are not a mere commodity that is hoarded, but a consumable used for making and repairing weapons, tools and armour. So please help me to understand your concern.

Sporknoggi-
n
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Sporknoggin
Post Re: Fixing the Server Economy without a reset
on: February 21, 2014, 14:59
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I like turtles πŸ˜€

Jackalmen
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Posts: 257
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Jackalmen
Post Re: Fixing the Server Economy without a reset
on: February 21, 2014, 16:37
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First off, talk of resets in threads makes people nervous. So I will say that this is a no reset server and it will not ever reset. Even if the roads are paved with diamond blocks and people are using beacons for lighting… Heh.. Beacons for lighting… Who would even do that?.. Yea.. Anyway…

Will, I understand where you’re coming from. I’ve been on several servers that did map resets. What I’ve experienced is that the appeal of a map reset lies in the hope of ending up being the person on top. The guy that has it all. It’s almost like a race. And out of the struggle to reach the top an economy would grow.

Until…

3 or 4 months down the road when everybody has everything. Economy is in shambles. People got bored because there is nowhere to climb to. Complaints similar to yours start to surface. People start becoming uninterested in Minecraft. Finding new servers, searching for a challenge. Attendance reaches a low and then the owner decides its enough and a map reset happens.

Rinse and repeat…

I got sick of owners dumping paint thinner on my creations. So that’s why we’re here. People return after being gone from the server for 8 months to see that their building still stands and their projects are right where they left them. As it should be. But, really, Ocean Market is a fun thing I’m doing and it shouldn’t be taken this seriously.

Ultracity
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Ultracity
Post Re: Fixing the Server Economy without a reset
on: February 21, 2014, 18:00
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If I have extra of something that someone else needs, I give it away, and would even if the server reset. I’m not here to have the most chests of stuff, I’m here to build dumb crap.

tupper_
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Posts: 60
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tupper_
Post Re: Fixing the Server Economy without a reset
on: February 22, 2014, 03:56
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I don’t even have food.

Take that economy.

Will
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Posts: 7
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Post Re: Fixing the Server Economy without a reset
on: February 22, 2014, 06:32
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Is it bad I made this midday and don’t remember making it?

I made a couple of really bad assumptions that make this argument 100% wrong, but the fact that we are pretty much the most awesome Marxist Utopia in Minecraft.

Jack can you delete this or something.

Sporknoggi-
n
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Sporknoggin
Post Re: Fixing the Server Economy without a reset
on: February 22, 2014, 07:52
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